Full transcript of “Face the Nation” on June 19, 2022

On this “Face the Nation” broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:

  • Rep. Zoe Lofgren, Democrat of California
  • Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner
  • Brian Deese, director of the Nationwide Financial Council
  • Loretta Mester, president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Financial institution of Cleveland
  • Dr. Ibram X. Kendi, professor, writer and CBS Information racial justice contributor

Click on here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”  

MARGARET BRENNAN: I am Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: Inflation rises, and so does the danger of recession.

Plus, extra proof from January 6 reveals that former President Trump and his allies knew their plot to overturn the election was unlawful. The lawmakers investigating the January 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol and witnesses to that day warn that former President Trump and his allies pose a transparent and current hazard to American democracy.

(Start VT)

REPRESENTATIVE BENNIE THOMPSON (D-Mississippi): Former President Donald Trump and different political allies seem ready to grab the presidency in 2024.

(Finish VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Final week’s hearings revealed surprising new particulars about how shut we got here to a possible act of horrific violence.

(Start VT)

REPRESENTATIVE PETE AGUILAR (D-California): Roughly 40 toes, that is all there was, 40 toes between the vp and the mob.

(Finish VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We realized extra in regards to the extraordinary stress the previous president exerted on his vp to overturn the 2020 election, regardless of high aides telling him the scheme was unconstitutional and his claims of voter fraud had been bogus.

(Start VT)

WILLIAM BARR (Former U.S. Legal professional Normal): He has change into indifferent from actuality if he actually believes these things.

(Finish VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll discuss with one of many investigators, California Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren.

Plus: The Federal Reserve signaled it’ll hike rates of interest on the most speedy tempo in a long time to combat inflation that’s operating at a 40-year excessive.

(Start VT)

JOE BIDEN (President of the US): I am utilizing each lever accessible to me to deliver down costs for the American folks.

(Finish VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: However is the president powerless? And might the nation keep away from a recession?

We’ll hear from the director of the Nationwide Financial Council, Brian Deese, and the president of the Federal Reserve Financial institution of Cleveland, Loretta Mester.

Then: Vaccinations for the youngest People are set to start this week. We’ll ask former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb in regards to the rollout.

And, lastly, as People observe Juneteenth, we’ll hear from writer and historian Ibram Kendi.

It is all simply forward on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.

We’ve rather a lot to get to at the moment, together with some long-awaited COVID information finalized simply yesterday. Practically 20 million kids will lastly have entry to coronavirus vaccines, after the CDC authorized emergency use in infants, toddlers and preschoolers, aid for folks.

However there’s extra financial nervousness. Fears of a recession are piling on high of struggles with inflation. The Federal Reserve hiked rates of interest by three-quarters-of-a-percentage level, within the single largest enhance in almost three a long time.

However we start with a disaster in our American democracy, the investigation into the January 6 assault and the flowery scheming that led as much as it. Lawmakers and witnesses are warning that the risk shouldn’t be over.

For extra on what we realized and what’s subsequent within the hearings, this is CBS Information congressional correspondent Scott MacFarlane.

(Start VT)

MIKE PENCE (Former Vice President of the US): On this vote…

SCOTT MACFARLANE (voice-over): An unprecedented stress marketing campaign in opposition to a sitting vp ended with Mike Pence in an underground loading dock beneath the Capitol for 4 hours January 6.

He’d been rushed into security from the U.S. Senate chamber and, at one level, insurgents had been simply 40 toes away.

REPRESENTATIVE PETE AGUILAR: A confidential informant from the Proud Boys advised the FBI the Proud Boys would have killed Mike Pence if given an opportunity.

SCOTT MACFARLANE: That day, he refused to go away.

GREG JACOB (Former Counsel to Vice President Mike Pence): The vp didn’t wish to take any likelihood that the world would see the vp of the US fleeing the US Capitol.

SCOTT MACFARLANE: Earlier that day, the president personally pressured Pence one final time earlier than the electoral vote. Witnesses say he known as Pence a wimp.

In a speech Friday, the previous president denied it…

DONALD TRUMP (Former President of the US): I by no means known as Mike Pence a wimp. I by no means known as him a wimp.

SCOTT MACFARLANE: … however once more asserted Pence may have stopped the official certification of the electoral votes.

FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I mentioned, effectively, what’s he, a robotic? He is a human conveyor belt.

SCOTT MACFARLANE: The committee argued the already violent mob was egged on additional by Trump’s midafternoon tweet that Pence lacked braveness.

MAN: I am telling you, if Pence caved, we will drag mom (EXPLETIVE DELETED) via the streets.

RIOTERS: Dangle Mike Pence! Dangle Mike Pence! Dangle Mike Pence! Dangle Mike Pence!

SCOTT MACFARLANE: A collection of White Home attorneys and aides described an elaborate, weeks-long effort to strong-arm Pence into executing a scheme devised by California lawyer John Eastman to reject a few of the electoral votes and steal the election.

White Home attorneys testified, the president and Eastman each knew the plan was bogus and illegal.

A Trump White Home aide described a name to Eastman.

ERIC HERSCHMANN (Former White Home Legal professional): I mentioned: “Are you out of your F’ing thoughts?” I mentioned: “You are going to trigger riots within the streets.”

(Finish VT)

SCOTT MACFARLANE: The committee has two hearings deliberate for the week forward, together with one during which they’re anticipated to argue that Donald Trump tried to intervene with native election officers, together with in Georgia.

And CBS Information has realized the committee additionally has a staff investigating the position performed by far proper teams, together with their efforts to plot and plan forward of the assault — Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Scott, thanks.

We now wish to go to Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California. She is in San Jose.

Good morning to you.

You are one of many investigators on this Choose Committee.

And I believe probably the most highly effective moments was when the retired conservative choose, Choose Luttig, mentioned that he sees a transparent and current hazard at the moment. He mentioned there may very well be additional makes an attempt to subvert American democracy in 2024.

What precisely is the risk you see?

REPRESENTATIVE ZOE LOFGREN (D-California): Properly, I believe Choose Luttig mentioned it very effectively. And, by the way in which, he’s a really conservative man, as soon as thought-about by Republicans for the Supreme Court docket.

I believe his concern — and I share it — is that the previous president is constant on his marketing campaign to undercut confidence within the election system. They’re putting in loyalists who say that the election was stolen in states who’re going to rely the votes.

They clearly tried to get the vp to throw the precise votes out and substitute electors with the dropping candidate. And it appears to be like like that is within the works for the subsequent election as effectively. It is a grave concern.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, to be clear, there are about 100 Republican candidates for workplace proper now who’re repeating that they’re election deniers. They’re repeating a few of what President Trump nonetheless claims.

Not less than 5 of them have gained their primaries. Have you ever discovered any direct hyperlinks between any of these candidates and the grift that you’ve got been monitoring?

REPRESENTATIVE ZOE LOFGREN: Properly, we’re going to launch further info.

I’ve received the workers engaged on it proper now. Clearly, the hearings are a few hours every, and you may’t lay out all the data that is been compiled. So, I do know there’s been substantial curiosity within the — the large ripoff. And we’ll present further info to the general public quickly.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You are saying establishing direct hyperlinks between these people standing for election to workplace now and the scheme you are laying out?


We’ll lay out what we now have, and other people can take a look at it. I do not wish to simply pop off irresponsibly right here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Your colleagues on the committee Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger mentioned on one other community this morning that he simply obtained a dying risk in opposition to him, his spouse, and his 5-month-old baby for the work he is doing.


MARGARET BRENNAN: He mentioned there’s violence sooner or later.

Do you agree that you’ve got a concern of political violence? And have you ever obtained threats?

REPRESENTATIVE ZOE LOFGREN: Properly, I do not wish to go into the threats I’ve obtained. I believe it simply encourages extra of them.

But it surely’s very regarding that Adam and his spouse and his little child had been threatened. I noticed the risk. It was a written risk. We noticed that Republican Congressman, a really conservative consultant, Crenshaw was roughed up over the weekend at a Republican assembly as a result of he was not conservative sufficient.

And I believe that is what the previous president has unleashed right here. You realize, when he despatched out the tweet attacking his vp, he already knew that the violence was below approach. The one conclusion you possibly can attain is that he supposed to speed up that violence in opposition to the previous vp.

So, we’re in a really tough time in America proper now. And we, all of us, elected officers, but additionally simply People and their neighbors, want to face up for the rule of regulation and in opposition to political violence. It isn’t what America is about.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, for the busy American individuals who might not have been watching the hearings as intently as we had been, precisely what’s the endgame right here?

Are you laying out a street map for the Division of Justice to in the end attempt to prosecute the previous president?

REPRESENTATIVE ZOE LOFGREN: We’re doing what we had been requested to do when the committee was fashioned, which is to seek out the reality, lay it out.

And we may also be making legislative suggestions. For instance, the Electoral Depend Act was violated. Dr. Eastman admitted as a lot .However we predict we will tighten that up, so it is much less prone to abuse. And we’re working at — particularly Liz Cheney and I are engaged on that.

The Division of Justice has to make its personal resolution. We’re laying out information. They’ll see it. However I am certain they’ve entry to different info as a result of they have grand juries assembly with varied defendants. We’re going to be useful to them by way of particular info that they need from the — our personal investigations.

However they have a — it is not the position of Congress to determine who will get prosecuted.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, plenty of your committee members, your fellow committee members, have criticized Legal professional Normal Garland for not shifting sooner.

So, they do wish to see some form of motion right here.


MARGARET BRENNAN: And there was this letter from the Justice Division asking for transcripts and saying that your committee’s failure to right away hand them over was complicating their investigation.

Precisely what’s going on right here?

REPRESENTATIVE ZOE LOFGREN: Properly, that was form of — we had been stunned by that, frankly.

And we’ll have interaction. We’re not going to be an impediment to the Division of Justice prosecution of people. We’re in the course of placing these hearings collectively. The workers is working, I imply, extremely exhausting, together with the members of Congress, the place we’ll get specific info that they want over to them in an orderly approach, definitely, by the start of subsequent month.

MARGARET BRENNAN: By the start of subsequent month.

Within the subsequent week, you might have plenty of Republican officers from state, native governments coming, together with Arizona Home Speaker Rusty Bowers, who mentioned he had been pressured by the president — the previous president’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani and by the previous president himself to retroactively change Arizona regulation to decide on a unique slate of presidential electors.

He additionally has mentioned he obtained e-mails from Ginni Thomas to reverse Trump’s loss. And she or he is the spouse, after all, of sitting Supreme Court docket Justice Clarence Thomas.

Will you ask Bowers about that hyperlink to Thomas?

REPRESENTATIVE ZOE LOFGREN: Properly, I am not going to step on the committee’s traces for the listening to.

However, clearly, as you recognize, we have invited Ginni Thomas to return in and go to with the committee, reply our questions. And we have obtained really further info once we received proof from the Eastman e-mails which have now been ordered launched by Choose Carter in California.

So, we now have questions for her, and we might have questions for him as effectively.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Will Ginni Thomas seem? Do it is advisable to subpoena her? And can her husband seem?

REPRESENTATIVE ZOE LOFGREN: Properly, we have requested her to look.

She — it was a non-public letter. She determined to reveal it, which is her proper to do. And she or he mentioned publicly that she appears to be like ahead to coming in and speaking to us. So, I take her at her phrase that she intends to return in. And we stay up for speaking to her.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congresswoman Lofgren, thanks in your time. And we will likely be watching.

Face the Nation will likely be again in a minute. Stick with us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to former FDA Commissioner, present Pfizer board member Dr. Scott Gottlieb, who joins us from Westport, Connecticut, this morning.

Pleased Father’s Day to you, Physician.

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB (Former FDA Commissioner): Thanks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And I’ve been asking you for years now when my kids had been ever going to have the ability to get a vaccine. And now we all know they’re really being shipped out.

However this can be a fairly distinctive rollout for these youngest of People. In truth, kids below the age of three cannot go to those mass vaccination websites that we have seen for older folks.

How difficult is rolling this out to the youngest People going to be?

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Properly, extra difficult than different age segments. And I believe it should be a little bit bit extra of a sluggish rollout, relative to what we have seen in previous rollouts with the opposite age teams.

There are going to be pharmacies which are vaccinating kids. CVS goes to maneuver it into their pharmacies, however they’re solely shifting it into the pharmacies with superior care suppliers with their MinuteClinics. You are most likely not going to see clinic stood up. Perhaps round kids’s hospitals, you will see some clinics stood up.

However most individuals are most likely going to get vaccinated and their pediatricians’ workplaces. And it should take a little bit bit extra time to get the vaccine into these native settings, as a result of it is tougher to vaccinate a toddler who may be very younger. You want people who find themselves specifically educated to do this.

And so that you need — you need the settings to be acceptable.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The White Home adviser Dr. Ashish Jha briefed this week, and he mentioned virtually 50,000 kids below the age of 5 have been hospitalized on account of COVID infections, 1 / 4 of them within the ICU, so actually instantly disputing the concept that children do not get that sick.

However then, once we take a look at the orders right here, 10 million doses made accessible by the federal government. Simply wanting 4 million had been really ordered. That signifies maybe a low degree of uptake.

Does that concern you?

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Look, it is continued to concern me that we’ve not seen a variety of uptake amongst kids typically, that solely about 30 p.c of children ages 5 to 11 have been vaccinated with two doses.

That is decrease than what the preliminary estimates are. Proper now, there are surveys displaying that about 20 p.c of oldsters plan to vaccinate kids below the age of 5. I believe it might find yourself being decrease than that. I believe, as prevalence declines going into the summer season, a variety of mother and father might select to take a wait-and-see angle and rethink this within the fall.

So I might suspect that uptake goes to be fairly sluggish. I believe the 4.98 — or 3.98 million doses which were ordered thus far is a mirrored image of that truth. I believe, over time, we will see extra children get vaccinated. However this can be a critical illness in kids. Greater than 1,000 have died, about 440 below the age of 4.

We have seen, as you mentioned, tens of hundreds of hospitalizations on this age section. And this is not a benign sickness in a variety of children, wholesome children, in addition to children with a variety of comorbid sickness. And we’re nonetheless seeing tens of hundreds of hospitalizations each week in that pediatric age section.

And the ultimate level I’ll simply say is that COVID is a a lot totally different illness in kids who’re immune-naive vs. kids who’ve some prior immune publicity. So, should you can acquire some prior immune publicity via vaccination, when a toddler is ultimately going to confront this an infection — and most of the people, ultimately, over the course of their lifetime, are going to get this an infection — it is a a lot totally different illness as soon as you have had that prior immune publicity and have some baseline immunity in opposition to this — this an infection.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I hear you saying it is not that your child will not get sick, in the event that they get the shot; it is that they won’t essentially be hospitalized, proper?

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: They’re going to have extra baseline immunity. They’re going to have some T-cell safety. They’re going to have reminiscence B-cells that may shield them in that setting.


Look, each a part of this pandemic has change into politicized indirectly. And there was this back-and-forth between the White Home and the state of Florida, the governor there, Ron DeSantis, whose state is actively dissuading kids from being vaccinated.

And there was this back-and-forth over not ordering vaccine provides. What is that this about? And he is claiming the trial knowledge was abysmal and it mustn’t have gotten FDA authorization. He isn’t a health care provider. You are a health care provider. Inform me, what’s your view right here?

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Properly, look, these vaccines have gone via sturdy medical research. We’ve a variety of expertise with these vaccines now in kids, kids ages 5 to 11.

This received a unanimous vote from a reasonably various set of advisers on the FDA, 21-0 in a unanimous vote from CDC. So, I believe folks ought to really feel assured within the security and effectiveness of each of those vaccines.

I believe there’s actually two questions on a desk with respect to the state of Florida. Are they proper to actively discourage vaccination, and did they take steps to actively impede the flexibility of physicians in that state to get entry to the vaccine?

I believe they’re mistaken to actively discourage vaccination. They might have taken a impartial stance and simply merely mentioned, we’re not recommending the vaccine for kids. As an alternative, they affirmatively oppose the vaccine. I imagine they’re the one jurisdiction to do this. Different nations that are not recommending the vaccine have not actively opposed vaccination. They have not mentioned that youngsters should not get vaccinated.

With respect to the second query in regards to the entry to the vaccine for suppliers, I do not suppose that they are actively impeding the flexibility of pediatricians within the state to get the vaccine. They’re simply not facilitating that. And this can be a place that they mentioned they’d take all alongside. They articulated this a lot earlier within the yr.

What’s occurring in each different state is, the states actually act as an middleman, taking possession of the vaccine from the CDC, after which redistributing it to physicians inside that state.

And so what different states did, the place they preordered vaccine, within the state of Florida, they are not taking part in that position. They advised physicians, you are going to should direct order from the CDC. And due to that, no preorders had been positioned. Physicians had been solely in a position to place orders as soon as this was authorized.

So the state of Florida was the one state that wasn’t in a position to get preorders in, and the primary shipments that went out had been these preorders. Now, the White Home has taken steps to…


DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: … prioritize the orders which have are available from medical doctors in Florida. About 20,000 have are available as of yesterday. So, they will be getting vaccine this week.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However, to be clear, it is an emergency use authorization. Non-public business cannot purchase this instantly. The federal government must be concerned, appropriate?

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: That is proper.

So, within the state of Florida, physicians are occurring to the Website online, the Florida State Website online, and placing in orders. It is successfully via the state. I imply, the state’s performing as a dealer. These orders are then going into CDC. However the state shouldn’t be taking possession.

And what’s occurring in different states is that they’re taking possession of the vaccine, then redistributing it. And a variety of states have chosen to do this as a result of they wish to be certain there’s equitable distribution. They wish to get early provide. They need to have the ability to goal to sure — sure components of the state.

In Florida, they mentioned: We do not suppose folks must be getting this vaccine and we will play no position in facilitating that entry.

So, they are not blocking entry. They’re simply not facilitating that entry.


No, attention-grabbing perspective from you, Dr. Gottlieb. All the time love having you on this system.

We will likely be again with much more Face the Nation. Stick with us.

DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thanks rather a lot.


MARGARET BRENNAN: We flip now to our financial challenges.

CBS Information senior nationwide correspondent Mark Strassmann has extra on how we received right here.

(Start VT)

MARK STRASSMANN (voice-over): In case your paycheck feels smaller, it most likely is. Our economic system is racing crimson scorching, with widespread fear it is careening towards a cliff.

JEROME POWELL (Federal Reserve Chairman): We’ve each the instruments we’d like and the resolve that it’ll take to revive value stability.

MARK STRASSMANN: However past elevating rates of interest, there’s a lot the Fed cannot management, the a number of drivers behind the best charge of inflation in 40 years, like Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, now virtually in its fourth month, its international influence on the costs of minerals and metals, meals and gasoline.

Russian troops have blockaded or stolen Ukrainian wheat and corn. Corn futures commerce at $8 per bushel, the best value in a decade. And, most conspicuously, the conflict’s influence on gasoline costs. At roughly $5 a gallon, the typical value of U.S. gasoline is $2 greater than it was a yr in the past, with a cascading influence all through our economic system.

Take poultry costs, up virtually 17 p.c yr to yr, roughly double the speed of inflation. Farmers want gasoline for gear transportation, even fertilizer. They’re paying extra, so that you’re paying extra for hen. One other inflationary stress, ongoing provide chain points, an outgrowth of the pandemic. Demand dwarfs provide nonetheless.

Take China, makers of the world’s low-cost items. Its zero-COVID insurance policies have shut down a lot of its manufacturing facilities, together with at one time a lot of Shanghai, its monetary hub. U.S. automotive patrons really feel it, too few choices on the lot, new vehicles up virtually 14 p.c in a yr, used vehicles up 16 p.c.

Inflation can also be excessive due to a aggressive labor market. The jobless charge is below 4 p.c, with virtually two accessible positions for each job seeker. A technique employers compete for scarce staff, elevate wages.

And but, regardless of the whole lot costing extra, People preserve spending proper via the worth will increase, a mix of pandemic cabin fever and deep pockets. Washington pumped out $6 trillion in stimulus in two years, together with placing checks within the arms of shoppers. And, as a rustic, we now have cash to burn, $2.3 trillion in extra financial savings.

What is not clear, whether or not inflation has peaked or if rising rates of interest will sluggish development too dramatically and set off a recession.

(Finish VT)

MARK STRASSMANN: After which there’s the battle of inflation, psychology, client confidence, one thing the Fed may help form, if not management.

Can its insurance policies and messaging assist stability provide and demand, given the widespread perception on the market that, with inflation, issues may worsen earlier than they get higher? — Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mark Strassmann, thanks.

Developing, we’ll converse with two individuals who assist form financial coverage, Director of the White Home Nationwide Financial Council Brian Deese, in addition to the president of the Federal Reserve Financial institution of Kansas Metropolis, Loretta Mester.

Stick with us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: If you cannot watch the total Face the Nation, you possibly can set your DVR, or we can be found on demand. Plus, you possibly can watch us via our CBS or Paramount+ apps.

We will likely be proper again with much more Face the Nation, so stick with us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to Face the Nation.

We’re joined now by Brian Deese. He’s the director of President Biden’s Nationwide Financial Council.

Good morning, and welcome to the printed.

BRIAN DEESE (Director, Nationwide Financial Council): Thanks for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You could have an unimaginable problem in your arms.

Sure, the jobless charge is low, however wage development not maintaining tempo with inflation. What do you say to People who’re pondering that they may want a second job to pay their payments?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Properly, it’s an unsure second. And we face actual challenges, international challenges. Inflation is a world problem, 9 p.c within the U.Ok., over 8 p.c in Europe.

However we even have actual strengths right here at house. And so what I might say is, we have to navigate via this transition in a approach that will get us to steady development, with out giving up the entire unimaginable financial good points that we have made. You talked about the jobless charge at 3.6 p.c. We have additionally seen family stability sheets strengthened over the course of this era.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressional Finances Workplace predicts that top inflation will persist till 2024. The Treasury secretary has mentioned it’ll keep greater than the initially forecast 4.7 p.c.

When does it come down? How a lot time are you speaking about?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Properly, costs are unacceptably excessive proper now. And that is why the president has mentioned we have to make this our high financial focus and do the whole lot that we will to get them down.

Most unbiased forecasters, the Blue Chip, the Federal Reserve, as you mentioned, see inflation starting to reasonable over the course of this yr. However our focus is on, what are the steps, what are the insurance policies that we will take?

And the one most impactful factor that we may do proper now could be to work with Congress to cross laws that will decrease the prices of issues that households are going through proper now.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Like what, and the way?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Like pharmaceuticals.

We may decrease the price of pharmaceuticals by permitting Medicare to barter higher costs. That may really decrease federal spending, and it could decrease the prices that individuals pay.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The president mentioned this week in a uncommon interview that he really has the votes to do it. The place’s the deal? When’s the vote?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Properly, decreasing prescription drug prices is one piece. Reducing utility prices by offering tax incentives for power is one other piece, however, equally vital, decreasing the federal deficit by enacting long-overdue tax reform.

If we will do a bundle like that, and we will transfer ahead within the close to future, it won’t solely assist in decreasing costs, however it’ll ship a sign to the markets and the worldwide economic system that the US is absolutely lethal critical about taking over this inflation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Climbing taxes is not going to vary the worth of milk. When and the way are you really placing ahead this bundle?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: The bundle has been debated. It has been labored via.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It failed again when — Construct Again Higher’s model of it.

So, if inflation is the primary precedence proper now, when are you scheduling a vote to do the stuff you simply laid out?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: We’re working very intently with congressional management, with Senate management on that.

Senator Schumer is working together with his caucus to attempt to get a remaining bundle in place. And we’re hopeful that we’ll see progress on that within the coming weeks.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, within the coming weeks. You suppose you will get this completed on a party-line vote earlier than September?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: We’re hopeful we will transfer ahead on that and different priorities in Congress as effectively.

There is a invoice on semiconductors, which I do know you have talked about on this program, pc chips. The dearth of reasonably priced and accessible pc chips has pushed up costs throughout the economic system, together with in issues like vehicles. We’re hopeful that we will transfer that as effectively earlier than the August recess. That would offer some actual aid to the economic system as effectively.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Regardless of all of what you laid out — and I do know the president mentioned recession shouldn’t be inevitable — it appears more and more possible.

The Convention Board put out their survey this week. It reveals eight out of 10 international CEOs now anticipate a recession inside the subsequent 12 to 18 months.

So, what energy does the president should cease that form of contraction?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Properly, I believe what — the place we’re within the economic system proper now could be in a transition.

And I spoke to CEOs this — over the course of the previous week from sectors throughout the economic system, they usually’re determining learn how to navigate this transition. A few of that is precisely what we have to see.

MARGARET BRENNAN: They’re planning round a recession.

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Properly, they’re planning round transitions in our economic system.

Persons are shopping for much less items spending time at house. They’re spending extra on companies. That creates some actual challenges for some firms and a few CEOs.

What I might say is that not solely is the recession not inevitable, however I believe that lots of people are underestimating these strengths and the resilience of the American economic system.

MARGARET BRENNAN: However should not you degree with the American public and simply say, we’re in uncharted waters?

I imply, even the Federal Reserve Chair mentioned this week there are issues past his management. He cannot management the worth of gasoline. He cannot management the conflict in Europe. He cannot management COVID. He has a restricted set of instruments. And so do you. Is the president powerless right here?


Look, we face unprecedented international circumstances, a world pandemic and a conflict in Europe that has effects on the worldwide economic system. However, on the similar time, we now have a technique that may make a distinction.

That laws that we had been speaking about, decreasing the price of pharmaceuticals, decreasing the price of power, decreasing the federal deficit, that will make an actual distinction.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you’ve got all 50 Democrats on board for that? Since you did not final time you tried components of this invoice.

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Look, nothing is — nothing is finished till it is completed. We’re hopeful. We’re working exhausting. We’ve received our head down, and we will attempt to get one thing completed.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, plenty of economists — I wish to put up a chart of inflation right here for our viewers to see, measured by the Client Worth Index, so from the start of the pandemic via now.

And, as you possibly can see, the tick-up started a great yr earlier than the conflict in Ukraine started. Quite a lot of economists, together with on the San Francisco Fed, have mentioned that the large fiscal spending that went below approach, the $6 trillion in two years, did add to that, together with, as you possibly can see proper on there, the $2 trillion that the Biden administration pushed via within the spring of 2021.

So when folks take a look at that, they usually say, effectively, the White Home advised us why that inflation can be transitory, the White Home advised us we may undergo with this sort of spending, we would be effective, even when Democrats inside your individual social gathering had been warning this might add to inflation, how do you win credibility right here to the general public and say, this time, we’re not mistaken?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Properly, you simply should look all over the world at the moment to acknowledge that the 2 principal drivers of inflation are the pandemic and Putin.

We’re seeing this in every single place. It’s a international phenomenon. As I discussed within the U.Ok., inflation’s hit 9 p.c.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper, however the level is, these are the issues you possibly can’t management.

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: In Europe, it is over…

MARGARET BRENNAN: I am speaking in regards to the issues you possibly can.


MARGARET BRENNAN: So, how do you win that credibility again?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Properly, if we take a look at the issues that we will management, we win credibility by taking motion.

This president is performing. This president galvanized the worldwide group to do a historic launch of oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, one million barrels a day. Main oil market analysts this week mentioned that motion was single-handedly chargeable for maintaining oil costs from going up even additional.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Proper, quick time period.

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: We’re going to take motion. We’ll prioritize. We’ll clarify that tackling inflation is our high financial precedence.

MARGARET BRENNAN: One of many issues that you just do have management over on the government is the strategy on tariffs.

Treasury Secretary Yellen advised me again in November, she acknowledged that the Trump period China tariffs do add to inflation domestically right here. The president was requested about this yesterday and mentioned: “We’re nonetheless within the course of of creating up my thoughts.”

If inflation is the primary precedence, why are you dragging out this resolution?

DIRECTOR BRIAN DEESE: Properly, I’ll let the president’s phrases converse for himself.

We’re wanting intently at it. And I anticipate the president may have extra to say on that difficulty within the coming weeks.

However, simply to be very clear, over the course of the final couple of months, this is a matter about our provide chains and about getting items to the US in a approach that’s efficient and low-cost. And the president has been extremely targeted on that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, we’ll proceed to trace it.

Thanks very a lot, Brian Deese, for coming in.


MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’ll be proper again.


MARGARET BRENNAN: There are simply 12 individuals who get to vote on whether or not to regulate rates of interest and by how a lot, the members of the Federal Reserve’s Open Market Committee.

Loretta Mester is a kind of folks and he or she joins us from Philadelphia this morning.

Good morning to you.

LORETTA MESTER (President, Federal Reserve Financial institution of Cleveland): Good morning, Margaret. Glad to be with you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Glad to have you ever again.

You realize, this sustained excessive inflation continues to shock Federal Reserve officers. Chair — Chairman Jerome Powell — excuse me — mentioned as a lot this week, and that is why he mentioned there was this unusually giant rate of interest enhance of 75 foundation factors.

He expects one other related one in one other few weeks. What would alter that plan for you?

LORETTA MESTER: Properly, what we’re is attempting to get our rates of interest as much as a extra regular degree, in order that we will stem a few of the outsized demand momentum within the economic system and convey it again down, in order that we will relieve a few of these inflationary pressures.

So we will be in search of the month-to-month adjustments in inflation charges to get some actually good proof on whether or not we have seen inflation first stabilize after which start to maneuver again down. It’ll take some time to get inflation again right down to 2 p.c.

However what we’re in search of is that we may see some moderation in demand, which has been extremely robust, bringing it again in alignment with provide facet, which, after all, as you recognize, has been constrained, assuaging a few of that value pressures, getting inflation shifting again down, and on a sustainable path again to 2 p.c, which is our inflation objective.

So that is what we will be is, what is going on on within the month-to-month numbers? And, frankly, the Could CPI report principally was unhealthy throughout the board, by way of, we did not actually see inflation stabilize. In truth, a few of the measures really seemed worse in Could than in April. And in order that was a part of the calculus of why shifting up at a barely higher-than- regular charge enhance occurred at our assembly final week.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, and one particular person did dissent, Esther George of the Kansas Metropolis Fed. She mentioned she thought the Fed was shifting by an excessive amount of and too quick. She argued: “Important and abrupt adjustments might be unsettling to households and small companies.”

Why is she mistaken? And are you assured these dramatic hikes will not set off a recession?


Properly, I might by no means say Esther’s mistaken. It is another view. We had signaled that we thought 50 can be acceptable, however then we received new knowledge. And we have additionally mentioned that we actually have to be nimble on this interval of uncertainty.

And once we see knowledge shifting within the mistaken route, or persevering with to maneuver within the mistaken route, and knowledge that inflation expectations, not within the quick run, however even within the longer run are shifting up, that was what was convincing to me that it was acceptable to maneuver at an even bigger clip than we had signaled early on.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you’ll anticipate that subsequent time?

LORETTA MESTER: However, once more, clearly, what we will be is, is demand moderating and coming higher in keeping with provide, and is inflation turning again down?

That is going to be key right here. We have to see compelling proof that inflation is starting to maneuver again down in direction of our objective.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Properly, the Treasury Secretary, Janet Yellen, you recognize her from her time when she was operating the Federal Reserve.

She mentioned this morning the economic system will sluggish. How a lot are you anticipating it to sluggish? Are you predicting a recession?

LORETTA MESTER: So, I am not predicting a recession.

In the event you take a look at the forecasts that had been submitted and launched earlier this week of all of the individuals within the FOMC assembly, you will see that we do have development slowing to a little bit bit under pattern development, and we do have the unemployment charge shifting up a little bit bit. And that is OK, proper?

It is type of, we wish to see some slowing in demand to get it in higher line with provide. However there’s different issues which are going to be occurring later within the yr too. For instance, we have already seen households actually shifting a few of their spending, quite than spending on items, which actually was the majority of spending popping out of the pandemic, peak of the pandemic, when the economic system reopened, into extra companies.

That is going to assist alleviate a few of the upward stress on items costs. So different components of the economic system will likely be shifting, in addition to what we’re doing on rates of interest. We have already seen rates of interest have an impact within the housing sector, the place the housing sector is pulling again from the heights that it had seen.

So, we wish to see some moderation in demand, proper? What we will be navigating, although, is setting our coverage charges, our rates of interest, in order that we will preserve a wholesome economic system and wholesome labor markets as we undergo this era.

However there’s a variety of uncertainty on the market. And we will should be very cautious and nimble in how we strategy this pulling again of this very accommodative financial coverage that is one thing extra acceptable to the economic system.


The Fed chair, although, was fairly clear that there are issues which are past your management. Financial coverage cannot clear up this drawback. He mentioned gasoline costs are past your management, the conflict in Ukraine, COVID.

So, for folks at house, does that imply they need to assume their meals and power prices are going to remain excessive for the subsequent yr or two?

LORETTA MESTER: So, I agree with Chair Powell, proper? The way in which financial coverage works is on the demand facet of the economic system. We will sluggish a few of that demand that is approach above the place the availability presently is.

However we should always anticipate to see some moderation and a few enchancment on the availability facet as we go ahead as effectively. Extremely unsure, I agree. Financial coverage cannot management that. What we will do is absolutely do what we will with our instruments to get this inflation drawback. And, as you mentioned, it is at a 40-year excessive. We have to get financial coverage in a great place to fight that extreme demand and the extreme demand that actually is driving value pressures.

That is what we will do with our instruments. And we’re dedicated to doing that and maintaining inflation — shifting it down again to 2 p.c. However the motive it will take some time is as a result of we have to have that offer facet come again into higher stability as effectively.


LORETTA MESTER: And that is why it is not going to be instant that we see 2 p.c inflation.


LORETTA MESTER: It can take a few years. However it is going to be shifting down.


I imply, the opposite factor that is exhausting to measure is simply folks’s confidence, proper? And once they take a look at being advised by the administration, by the Fed that inflation was transitory, they will say, folks had been mistaken, proper? The officers received it mistaken.

Gary Cohn, former president of Goldman Sachs, previously Trump financial adviser, mentioned the Fed was clearly behind the curve, clearly late in elevating charges, and now the runway for a mushy touchdown is now a lot shorter and narrower.

You are not predicting recession, however you have to acknowledge that there have been missteps, and the danger is rising.


The recession dangers are going up, partly as a result of financial coverage may have pivoted a little bit sooner than it did. We’re doing that now by shifting rates of interest up. However, after all, there’s a variety of different issues occurring as effectively. The Ukraine state of affairs, which is a tragedy, proper, has actually led to that top oil costs that everybody’s feeling the brunt of and excessive gasoline costs.

So different issues had been shifting on the availability facet as effectively. Little doubt, provide situations stay constrained longer than I believe anybody thought. The companies that we talked to within the Cleveland district all thought that there can be significant enchancment at the same time as early as final yr. We did not get that. Now they do not see significant enchancment till farther — a lot additional out.

So, once more, different issues are occurring.


LORETTA MESTER: What I wish to say, although, is, we on the Fed are very dedicated to utilizing the instruments at our disposal, proper, to deliver this inflation below management and getting it again to 2 p.c.

It’s the primary problem within the economic system now.


LORETTA MESTER: And I imagine it’s a necessity to do this if we wish to maintain wholesome labor markets.


LORETTA MESTER: I do not see this…


LORETTA MESTER: … as a tradeoff in any respect.


Properly, it is a — it is an enormous financial problem and a political one. We’ll proceed masking it right here.

Thanks, Loretta Mester.

We’ll be again in a second.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Right now is Juneteenth, a federal vacation marking the abolition of slavery and African-America freedom.

June 19, 1865, was when the final enslaved folks in Texas obtained phrase of their freedom, greater than two years after President Abraham Lincoln had signed the Emancipation Proclamation.

For extra, we would like to show to CBS Information racial justice contributor, Dr. Ibram Kendi, who can also be the writer of two new books, “Find out how to Increase an Antiracist” and “Goodnight Racism.”

Good morning. Pleased Father’s Day, by the way in which.



MARGARET BRENNAN: I do know you might have a 6-year-old daughter. So, I’m wondering, how are you going to show her what this vacation is?

IBRAM KENDI: Properly, I am really going to show her that it is Freedom Day and that, all through this nation’s historical past, there’s been two views on freedom, actually two fights for freedom.

Enslaved folks had been preventing for freedom from slavery, and enslavers had been preventing for the liberty to enslave. And, in some ways, that type of distinction nonetheless exists at the moment. There are people who find themselves preventing for freedom from assault rifles, freedom from poverty, freedom from exploitation, after which there are others who’re preventing for freedom to take advantage of, freedom to have weapons, freedom to keep up inequality.

So I actually wish to get her to know that there are a number of sorts of freedom, and he or she must be preventing for and becoming a member of with those that are preventing for freedom from one thing like slavery.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, this idea will get to type of the core of what so a lot of your books are about, once you say anti-racist.

And I simply wish to be clear for people who find themselves listening. You don’t train Essential Race Principle, or CRT, which has change into very politicized. You deal with this concept of anti-racism.

How do you clarify to folks at house the distinction? And for many who say, this is likely to be too superior for a kid, how do you — how do you reply?

IBRAM KENDI: Properly, the distinction is, Essential Race Principle is an anti- racist type of principle, however I am desirous about one thing — I am actually attempting to get the American folks to essentially perceive that there is inequality, and the reason for that inequality shouldn’t be what’s mistaken with, for instance, black folks. It is what’s mistaken with — with unhealthy insurance policies.

And the way in which children can perceive it’s, children perceive unhealthy guidelines. My daughter understands what’s not truthful. And we will train kids that there is unhealthy guidelines in society. There are issues that aren’t truthful in society. And that is why, for instance, black folks have much less. It isn’t as a result of they’re much less.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You — so, I believe, for folks at house who’re attempting to know the idea, it is attention-grabbing, since you principally are arguing being colorblind shouldn’t be a advantage.

For therefore lengthy, folks had been taught, be blind to paint. You are saying acknowledging that is vital, as a result of, should you ignore it, it permits racism to outlive. Is that proper?


And, sadly, we, as mother and father and lecturers and caregivers of kids and simply adults, wish to imagine that, however, sadly, it is simply not true. I imply, research present that, as early as 3 years outdated, our youngsters have an adult-like idea of race. They don’t seem to be solely seeing colour, however they’re attaching it to qualities, like smartness, like honesty.

And so we now have to share with our youngsters, sure, there are all these totally different colours, however they do not imply something, similar to a guide cowl does not imply something. You actually should open the guide, and you need to open somebody’s coronary heart to see who they and what they really are.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You realize, Condoleezza Rice, the previous secretary of state, was on this program round this time final yr. And I used to be studying her remarks.

And she or he mentioned, in terms of instructing about race, she needs kids to be taught about America’s start defect of racism, but additionally ahead progress on its points. She mentioned: “I do not need this to be black in opposition to white, my weaponization of my id in opposition to yours.”

Do you see that weaponization occurring, as a result of there’s concern of that?

IBRAM KENDI: I really suppose that that weaponization can occur, however that is why, as an example, I discuss in regards to the conflict between racism and anti- racism, versus black and white.

And I additionally suppose it is vital for us to know what I name in my work racist progress, how, over time — let’s take voter suppression insurance policies, have change into extra subtle over time. And so, if we’re not recognizing each racial progress and racist progress, then we will be lacking the methods during which racism and why racism is persisting and why inequality is persisting.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You realize, one of many issues that we’re monitoring proper now on this nation is that this risk of home extremism.

And, simply this week, the 18-year-old white man who killed 10 Black folks at a grocery store in Buffalo, New York, made an look in federal court docket. He apologized to his mother and father, however defined his motivation as being about stopping the elimination of the white race.

How do mother and father forestall their baby from being radicalized like that? I imply, that seems like on-line recruitment for terrorism or one thing.


And that is an enormous, big drawback, I imply that the variety of significantly white male teenagers who’re being recruited in multiplayer video video games, on-line via memes, via direct messages is absolutely excessive.

And the way in which that we shield our youngsters from that’s guarantee they will establish white supremacist ideology. And the way in which you — the way in which they will establish white supremacist ideology is to show them about it. There is not any approach they are going to have the ability to shield themselves from it, similar to they cannot shield themselves from vehicles. They’ve to know to look each methods, whether or not they’re youngsters or younger folks, so they will not get harmed.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Kendi, thanks very a lot. Good luck with the books.

And Pleased Father’s Day once more.


MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again.


MARGARET BRENNAN: That is it for us at the moment. Thanks all for watching. And a reminder which you can set your DVR if you cannot watch the total present.

And, to all of the dads on the market, together with my dad, my father-in-law, and my husband, completely satisfied Father’s Day.

Till subsequent week, for Face the Nation, I am Margaret Brennan.

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